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Workbench from the Far East
Posted 2/1/2008 in All Weblog Posts | Workbenches

On the cover of "Workbenches: From Design & Theory to Construction & Use" there are a couple low sawhorse-gizmos parked beneath my French-style workbench that look like Munchkins from the Lollipop Guild could have used them to build the set for the "Wizard of Oz."

Those are Japanese sawing trestles that I built five or six years ago based on plans from Toshio Odate's "Japanese Woodworking Tools: Their Tradition, Spirit, and Use." I built the trestles to do some hands-on research on Japanese sawing methods after several people had mentioned that Japanese saws weren't designed to be used at a high Western-style workbench.

After I built the trestles, I pushed my current bench aside and started sawing on the floor of our shop. To make joinery crosscuts, you place the work across the trestles and kneel on a mat (I used a moving blanket). To make rips, such as a tenon cheek, you prop the work up on the trestle, stand on the work and cut the cheek. (See the photo.)

I have to agree that the Japanese saws did cut more efficiently this way, especially the ryoba. But you do have to be in better shape than a typical Western woodworker. That's because you are the woodworking vise. Your weight and your muscles immobilize the work as you saw. Plus, you have to tune your sense of balance a little finer.

After I finished with that experiment, I kept the trestles around because they're quite handy. I use them primarily for assembling things on my benchtop. With my work resting on the trestles I can easily clamp all around the work and under it.

My trestles are cherry and made from 2"-thick stock – I built them entirely by hand from some stock we had harvested from a co-worker's back yard. Also, just for fun, I built them without glue or metal fasteners – I remembered something about that detail from college when I studied the Shinto religion. You don't want to mess with the kami. It was a fun afternoon project. The trestles are 16" long and 6" high. If I had to make them again, I'd probably make them 18" or 20" long – sometimes they are a bit small to hold casework.

— Christopher Schwarz


  Comments [17]
2/1/2008 4:08:00 PM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)
I can see where they would come in handy with assembly/glue-ups. I have seen photos of Toshio Odate using his benches on the floor and I always think...that dude's in way better shape than I am.
The Village Carpenter |goodwoodworkshopAT NOSPAMcomcast dot net
2/1/2008 4:29:37 PM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)
Chris,

I built a pair of these also - however mine are approx 6' 6" long and 7" tall. They were used to sort timber for a table top I was building and also during the glue up itself. The major benefit, as you rightly say, is that it keep the clamps off the ground and it also elevates the work to a somewhat less uncomfortable height. I am pleased that I came up with this idea.

Rich
Rich Stevens |richard dot stevensAT NOSPAMteam dot telstra dot com
2/1/2008 6:30:01 PM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)
I was thinking a set of those the right size would help with me the glue up of my workbench top. Might have to whip up a set :)
Tom Knighton |thomas dot knightonAT NOSPAMmchsi dot com
2/1/2008 8:27:45 PM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)
Gah! I bought that book just because of a post where you featured the little bench-horse things. All I needed was this post! Anyway, yours look much nicer than mine. Very useful.
Chris F. |chrisAT NOSPAMnrchris dot com
2/1/2008 10:15:29 PM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)
Perfect timing! I've had a few times lately where this would really have come in handy. And looks like a quick build too.

Thanks!
Eric |adventuresinwoodworkingAT NOSPAMgmail dot com
2/1/2008 11:32:36 PM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)
That is so interesting. I was reading your book the other night, and I was looking at the cover and wondering what those were. Now I don't have to ask. Well, now I'm going to have get Toshio's book as well. I had some time at a woodworking show a few years to watch him and talk with him. Another truly fascinating individual.
Stephen Kirk |stephenkirkAT NOSPAMcomcast dot net
2/2/2008 6:34:34 AM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)
Chris, Thanks for explaining. I did wonder about that. I also wondered why there is no draw knife on your tool rack, even though you talk about draw knifes.

Chris F: That's too bad. You might have done better with a book on Japanese woodworking then. But do read the whole book - it's good.
Mattias in Durham, NC |woodworking-magazineAT NOSPAMett-idesystem dot se
2/2/2008 6:50:43 PM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)
Mattias,

The Odate book is definitely worth having. I did buy it for the wrong reason, but I love to browse through it.
Chris F. |chrisAT NOSPAMnrchris dot com
2/2/2008 8:23:43 PM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)
Sorry, I misunderstood. I don't have the Odate book. I'm still single-mindedly pushing the Workbenches book.
Mattias in Durham, NC |woodworking-magazineAT NOSPAMett-idesystem dot se
2/4/2008 9:36:05 AM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)
If you crosscut kneeling on a mat with the work resting on those stands what keeps the wood from moving? Do you have to hold it still with the hand that isn't holding the saw?
Adrian |radianAT NOSPAMcox dot net
2/4/2008 9:46:57 AM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)

Adrian,

Yup. You grab the work with your off hand. You can even pinch the work and the trestle together if your work isn't too thick.

Chris
Christopher Schwarz |chris dot schwarzAT NOSPAMfwpubs dot com
2/5/2008 10:58:07 AM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)
Holding the work with the off hand doesn't seem like it would be very good for accurate cuts. I mean, that's what I've been doing (while standing at the bench), but only for cuts that aren't supposed to be accurate.

What about larger stuff? Recently I crosscut some 1x10 softwood with two different handsaws, including a ryoba, and I felt like the process wasn't working particularly well. Would they lay the work across the tresles and stand on top of it?
Adrian |radianAT NOSPAMcox dot net
2/5/2008 11:00:49 AM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)

You can use any body part that's handy (if not your hand). Kneel on it. Use your foot. Sit on it. I'm actually not recommending you saw on these trestles, by the way. I like Western workholding.

Chris
Christopher Schwarz |chris dot schwarzAT NOSPAMfwpubs dot com
2/6/2008 3:18:32 PM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)
Thanks, Chris. I'd given up on my ryobi saw, and now I know why it wasn't working for me. Have to build those and give it another try. Good info.
-Barb
BarbS |barbsid4AT NOSPAMyahoo dot com
2/6/2008 8:34:13 PM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)
These are interesting. I've spent about 7 1/2 years stationed in Japan over the past 20+ years I've been in the Navy. On my last tour, from which I returned about a year and a half ago, I got to know a number of Woodworkers on the base where I was assigned. They used many variations on the same theme, some covered with carpet, and of various widths and heights, placed on the floor for resting case peices while putting on hinges, etc., as well as using them on a bench to much as you suggested. They even had a version with slot to facilitate placing a door on it's edge to plane or whatever else they needed. Great tools!
Curtis Schmidtlein |cdschmidtleinAT NOSPAMhotmail dot com
2/7/2008 1:05:45 PM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)
It seems like Western workholding is, at least somewhat, designed around the push saw, though. You can't use a bench hook with a pull saw (unless you have a vise to hold it). With the pull saw you need to secure the work better because the cutting force is up and towards you rather than towards a solid support (unless you cut from underneath the work).

When I was cutting the 1x10 I did it with my ryoba. My daughter was sitting on the wood to help hold it down. But every so often the saw would catch and pull the wood and it would move an inch.

When I cut it with a push saw (a cheap one with Japanese teeth) I found that there was no need to secure the work at all. It didn't want to go anywhere. The cutting force was much higher with the push saw, which required more effort on my part. (The kerf was probably 4 times as wide.)

So it's not clear that Western methods work for this. I suppose I could clamp the board down to a heavy workbench, but then it would be too high, really. I could use a really heavy sawbench, or I could bolt a sawbench to the floor and clamp the work to it. But these approaches just seem wrong. That's why I was wondering about how they do it in Japan.
Adrian |radianAT NOSPAMcox dot net
2/19/2008 12:51:28 PM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)
Well I've had a pair of those for about 20 years and I do use them from toime to time but I still perfer to saw at my bench. That being said you will find ways to hold your work so you can use pull saws. I don't own a push saw and have found that pulling both saws and planes just works better for me so I just figure ways to hold the pieces so I can use both hands when I am ripping. I use a set of flip up stops on the edge of my bench for cross cuts. Another hint is I start my cuts on the inside facing me so I am pulling down and I can see both lines I'm cutting to. I also have a bench hold down I use when I want to use both hands on the saw. When cutting larger pieces it is just faster to use both hands and I don't get worn out as quick. Keep trying those Japanese saws and if you get used to them you may never go back.
Charlie Mastro |chuckfish2AT NOSPAMmsn dot com
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