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Posted 3/3/2008 in All Weblog Posts | Saws

When you buy a handplane (even a Veritas or a Lie-Nielsen), it's not going to work well out of the box. You really need to hone the iron to do decent work.

However, with saws, it's more complicated.

If you buy a cheap Western handsaw or backsaw, chances are that the teeth aren't sharp or properly set. So you need to either learn to sharpen your saw or send it to somebody who already knows.

But if you buy a premium Western saw – Lie-Nielsen, Adria, Wenzloff & Sons – the challenges are different. The premium saws are set up and sharp, but I think you need to break in the saw before it will cut smoothly. Most new Western saws are too grabby at first, especially for beginners. But after about a dozen tenons the saw will be easier to start and will run more smoothly in its kerf.

I was reminded of this when I was teaching a class in precision sawing this weekend at Kelly Mehler's School of Woodworking. Many of the students brought new premium saws to the class, and several of them brought their new saws up to my bench and asked the question: "Could you try my saw and tell me if it's cutting well?"

On a couple saws, the teeth were set too strong on one side. We stoned those teeth (a couple strokes on a #1,000-grit stone) to help straighten out the way they steered.

But with most of the students' saws I tried out they cut true, but they were harder to start than my saws or they didn't run as smoothly in the kerf. In fact, one student, Glen Koopmans, had a heck of a time with his new tenon saw. It was hanging in the cut and just not working well at all.

He stayed late into the evening trying to figure out if it was just him or just the saw.

The next morning, we cut a few tenons with his saw and then lubricated the blade with some paraffin wax (I use canning wax from the grocery). By the end of the weekend class, Glen's saw was running as smoothly as mine, which has logged a couple hundred tenons by now.

What happened? Three things. One: The wax helped lubricate the blade in the cut, which helped reduce the grabbiness of the new teeth. Two: the dozen or so joints that Glen cut with the saw helped ease the freshly filed edges on the teeth. And three: After about a dozen tenons, Glen was a much better sawyer.

At the end of the day Sunday, Glen was cutting the cheeks of massive half-lap joints in resinous yellow pine for the sawbenches we were constructing. Even all the way across the room, you could hear how smoothly his tenon saw was cutting. And the resulting cheek looked as good as the cheek of a table-saw tenon.

So before you send your new saw back to the factory, put some wax on the blade and cut some tenons first. You might just be surprised how nice your saw is and how easy it is (really!) to saw.

— Christopher Schwarz

3/4/2008 5:42:48 AM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)
Thanks for this Chris. I have a Wenzloff tenon saw coming so if I seem to have a little trouble with it at first I won't have to blame Mike (ha ha). I have one of his dovetail saws and as you say the more it's used the better it gets.
It seems anymore I look for something to make with dovetails just so I can use the saw.

Rusty
3/4/2008 10:05:55 AM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)
Cool, the post.

Thanks for the information.
3/4/2008 10:47:16 AM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)
Is there a difference between Japanese and western saws in this respect? I don't have very much experience with Japanese saws, but the small ryoba I do have cut well right out of the box. Maybe I was lucky? Maybe Japanese saws cut better out of the box, which lends to their popularity?
3/4/2008 11:09:47 AM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)
Mark's observation about Japanese style saws starting easily
right out of the box has also been my experience. I
think, and I could be wrong, that it has to do with the
induction hardening and set/fleam of the teeth. The
induction hardening uses a impulse of current to make the
teeth very hard.

I like the Japanese saws for the most part. But two things
I don't like: I'm not a big fan of the handles, I think
the Western style pistol grip lines u up my arm/wrist better. And
it annoys me that saw dust gets pulled into the kerf
when I am cutting. The Western style pushes it out of
the kerf(generally).
3/4/2008 2:43:18 PM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)
That might has been it!

This last weekend I went to the home workshop show in Toronto, nad the guys from Lie Nielsen were there. I tried a few of their saws and I found them to be a lot on the grabby (is this a word!?) side. The start was hard and then when I borke the resistance the saw jumped out of the line.
didn't like that but I blamed on me not on the fine saw!

P. Massabie
3/5/2008 9:11:03 AM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)
Recently I have seen a number of articles recommending waxing saws, oiling, greasing planes and chisels etc. Doesn't the wax, grease or oil get on to the wood and reduce glue effectiveness and finish absorbsion? Given your recommendation -- and that of Garrett Hack and the Williamsburg Cabinet shop folks -- I feel that I must be missing something! Please put me right.

Thanks for your ever thought provoking blog
Mike
3/5/2008 11:01:16 AM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)
Chris,
I believe that you have just saved people alot of money on postage to and from Lie-Nielsen, Mike Wenzloff and other premium saw manufacturers. Although I too had a brand new saw from Mr. Wenzloff (it is the Kenyon version of the 19" tenon saw which has been lovingly called the "freakishly huge tenon saw")I didn't have any issues at all with it, either that or I was too oblivious to notice.
I had been with Glen that night eating when he suddenly said, "we have to go back and check the saw again", and since Glen was my ride I gladly went along and watched and helped him try and figure out just what the problem was. As much as he wated to return the saw he really liked it and didn't want to, and after a lengthy discussion on the differance between what a carcase saw is vs. what a sash saw ishe decided to let you have a look at it in the morning. The rest is history. So this idea of "breaking in" a saw or other tool does indeed make sense and works as I had seen that day with Glen and other's in the class. Hopefully whoever reads your blog on this subject who find themselves in a similar situation will stop and give the saw or other tool a good workout first before deciding to return a perfectly working tool.

Thanks for another valuable tip,

Michael
3/5/2008 5:16:01 PM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)
When I sharpen a dovetail saw, I do not put any set on it, but do leave the filing burr. The cut is a bit rough initially, but as the burr wears smooth, the saw then cuts fine. Dovetail saws I have tried recently - LN, Gramercy (my 1st choice), Adria, Wenzloff (2nd choice, but best handle), old English saws (3rd choice). All cut better than my sawing skill (left eye, right hand dominant). I have large hands if that is a factor.

Peter
3/5/2008 7:59:55 PM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)
Mike,

Paraffin is merely mineral spirits with a high melting point and is not going to interfere with anything as far as I can tell (especially in those small quantities).

But even with other lubricants that might, the amounts are so small, and the surfaces are usually touched with other tools before finishing.

So I think the risk is near zero.

I've been doing this myself all my life. And the historical record supports it (and doesn't record any problems). So I have no problems recommending you try it without worrying too much.

Hope this helps.

Chris
3/5/2008 10:16:20 PM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)
I tried a couple new Japanese saw, one Shark Saw brand, another Vaughan BearSaw. Both claim that the blade is Japan-made. BearSaw was quite better of two; some of its teeth are of different kind, though I don't know what's their purpose. I found that you'll want to remove burr from the blade. It can be done by 1000 grit sandpaper, rubbing slightly on the sides.
3/6/2008 12:48:59 PM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)
Quote: "On a couple saws, the teeth were set too strong on one side. We stoned those teeth (a couple strokes on a #1,000-grit stone) to help straighten out the way they steered."

In what direction do you stone? Front to back or back to front?

3/7/2008 11:06:57 PM (Eastern Standard Time, UTC-05:00)

Sorry all, our blog software isn't consistently notifying me of your comments.

On removing set: I don't believe the direction of the stone matters. Out of habit (or sympathy to the saw) I rub the stone from the toe to the heel. This mimics the way the saw moves through the wood. I'll bet you a doughnut it doesn't make a darn bit of difference.

Chris
3/11/2008 9:45:53 PM (Eastern Daylight Time, UTC-04:00)
Chris;
If I understand what you are saying, wearing away metal roughtness due to filing will smooth out the cutting action, if that is true then by extension won't the continued use of the saw continue to wear away metal and eventurally dull it to the point of not being usefull. It seems to me that the saw blade metal is rather soft and not what you would want.

3/11/2008 10:17:50 PM (Eastern Daylight Time, UTC-04:00)

Larry,

Saw are indeed softer than chisels or plane blades, which makes them easy to file and renew. The softness also makes the teeth more resistant to shock.

Hardness isn't everything. If steel is too hard, it will be brittle and will be difficult to sharpen.

Bu then of course, nothing is worse than a saw that has teeth that are too soft.

--
Christopher Schwarz
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